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Post by Di on May 7, 2006 0:39:16 GMT
:Hi, your site given to me by a fellow GR member.
For over two years have been searching for my g.grandmother Christina Sutherland born Dunbeath, 16 Nov. 1838, her siblings & parents dates. Her death cert. states father: William Sutherland; mother Christina Sutherland formerly Sutherland. Christina (1838) came to New Zealand on the "Lincoln" in 1867 (cook) & in Lincoln, Canterbury, New Zealand, married William McLauchlan born 1836, Perthshire, in the home of Mr Sutherland on 4 june, 1868.
One of their witnesses was a James Sutherland, farmer. Their first son William Sutherland McLauchlan b.1869 died two mths later. Catherine (Kate) their only daughter was born July 1871, John was born July 1873 and William Archibald Cook in June 1876. They were all people of the land. Christina died on 19 Jan, 1912 aged 76yrs.
Any info. greatly appreciated.
Di
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Post by Neil Sutherland on May 8, 2006 22:47:04 GMT
Hi Di ( ...sorry!)
Its pretty hard to imagine, that after two years of searching, many stones are still left unturned. However, the first thing that comes to my mind, is the certainty of your great-grandmother's parents names. Are you going by what was on her death certificate only? Who was the informant, and did the informant have knowledge of who her parents were. You don't state if her parents moved to N.Z. or not also. If it is the case that they (William and Christina)did remain in Scotland, then presumably there is a death certificate for them also ... they were young enough to live past 1855.
In the event that both parents died before 1855, then it gets tricky. I could look at the Kirk sessions for Mort Cloth dues, hopefully they were still in Dunbeath, however. Presumably, again, you have checked the censuses for them ...any evidence? I'm not too sure what exists with regards to Dunbeath at hand, but some parishes' returns cover 1821 and 1831, as well as 1841 and 1851. I will look into that also.
With regards to the names themselves, depending on the informant on the death certificate, have you considered that her mother may not have been a Sutherland afterall. Do you know for sure it was? Perhaps the informant didn't know either, and just opted for it rather than appearing ignorant and saying "I don't know".
Then, of course, are the name variants: Chrissie and Christiana were quite common names at the time in the north of Scotland. Have you considered looking for her under the name of Catherine or Kate, the name of her first daughter, in step with the traditional naming conventions of that era? "Christina" may have been adopted as a pet name.
Sorry if I have trodden an already beaten track, but it is difficult to know where you have been already. If you could let me know, I will go to the National Archives and see what I can uncover from there.
As ever, throwing up more questions than answers!
Neil
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di
Rowan
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Post by di on May 20, 2006 5:48:24 GMT
Hi Neil,
Many thanks for your reply. I answered your post tonight with the details I have, but it stated another member has your name. Was that because I clickedonly be on line for 15mins. time had run out...can I retrieve the details I sent or start anew.
regards, Di
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di
Rowan
Posts: 13
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Post by di on May 20, 2006 5:49:58 GMT
Hi again Neil, guess I ran out of time. Will try again as above was posted.
Cheers, Di
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di
Rowan
Posts: 13
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Post by di on May 20, 2006 5:56:21 GMT
Neil, Thank you so much for your extremely interesting, helpful reply.
I found Christina Sutherland (daughter) on IGI..there are two born Dunbeath the same date but mine died Jan 19,1912. The other Christina has her parents as William & Christina Sutherland also.
Your suggestion re looking under Catherine was something this amateur genealogist didn't even consider. Also I had hoped the witness at her wedding James Sutherland, farmer, Selwyn, NZ might have been her brother but as yet have been unable to trace him here (library etc.) Christina (daughter) was married in the home of Mr Sutherland, South Town Belt, Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand. Indeed it may have been her father, but as yet have been unable to prove it even with Lincoln Historical Society or NZSG.
Obtained through Christchurch Library, New Zealand under marriages:
(63): McLAUCHLAN, William, full age, bach, farmer marr 4 June 1868*, at the house of Mr Sutherland, South Town Belt.( Dad or James??)
SUTHERLAND, Christina, full age, spins, domestic servant (had her as cook when she came out on the ship "Lincoln" in 1867.) witnesses James Sutherland, Farmer. Selwyn, Marjory Dunn, Lincoln (Williams side).
'I certify that this is a true copy of the original'. Rev. George Grant, Officiating Minister. (*Registered 30 May 1868.)
Christina (daughter's) death cert. Folio No. 1912/482. Ref. no: 5-0134079(BDM's Central Registery.)
No: 821 When & where died: 19th January, 1912, Lagumhor.
Name & Surname: (1) Christina McLauchlan
Rank, Prof. or occup: (2) married
Sex & age: Female. 76 years.
Name & Surname of father: William Sutherland
Name &, if known, Maiden
Surname of Mother: Christina Sutherland formerly Sutherland
Rank or Prof. of Father: Farmer
Where born: Dunbeath, Caithness.
How long in New Zealand: 44 years.
Where married: Christchurch
At what age: 30 years.
To whom married: William McLauchlan
Issue living: 2 males: 36yrs, 33yrs. 1 female: 39 years.
Sig. of informant: J. McLauchlan; son of deceased; Waterton.
Sig. of Reg: W. ? White.
Date of Reg: 20 January, 1912.
They were a well educated family judging from the diaries written by both William & his son John, but unfortunately mainly about the clydesdale horses they bred, shows they went to & their farms, crops etc. There is mention of a young George Sutherland who lived with them when the children were first born..a school boy.
As for your question Ian re "are you going on her death cert. only".I would have to say yes.
I wrote to Dunbeath Heritage at the end of Nov. 2005, received a note back from them saying they would look into it for me but as yet have heard nothing & thought I'd wait 'til the end of May to email them again. I guess I'm putting of the day that they may say they were unable to find anything.
One fact is known: Christina (daughter) was no 'spring chicken' when she married which gives me the feeling that marrying quite soon after her arrival in NZ the marriage may have been prearranged.
Another link I have only just received through a member of GR states she has a Christina Sutherland b. c1812 which she now finds was Christina Gunn who married William Sutherland b. 1812.
In another vein: have a lot of links with SHEARERS, PEACE, from the Orkneys My grand father John McLauchlan married Agnes Shearer (born Brookside, Canterbury, New Zealand).
Neil, again thank you so much for sharing your knowledge & generous offer for Look-ups. I would be over-the-moon to discover both Christina's & William's families. Dreadfully sorry I didn't see your reply earlier.
Warmest regards, Di
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Post by Neil Sutherland on May 20, 2006 12:05:18 GMT
Di Sorry that you went to all that bother the first time, only for your time to expire. Thanks for the information. I wrote to Chris ( Re: Christina II) directly, and stated that I will do a search at the National Archives (GROS) this coming week. At the same time I will be looking up your g-grandmother - armed with what you have given me now. Sometimes it is easier to attack these queries with little information, and to start from afresh, so I probably have a small advantage when I attack it. It is so easy to assume that the facts we gleam are defacto, thus it is better for me to go in with a completely open mind. There was nothing stopping a person back then assuming a new identity to get a job, board a ship or whatever, lie about their age to better their chances of marriage, or even their sex - in the case of Isabel Gunn ( www.ancestralorkney.com/famousadventurer.html). In anycase, I will post back my findings as soon as ... Neil |
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di
Rowan
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Post by di on May 20, 2006 22:50:46 GMT
Hi Neil, I'm learning more all the time which is great. Will have a looksee re case of Isabel Gunn..sounds interesting.
Thank you so much on behalf of Chris & myself for going to so much effort for us. I will be waiting eagerly & nervously for your next posting.
Best wishes, Di
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Post by gertiemsw on Jul 27, 2008 22:59:33 GMT
Hi Di
Thought I would post you a wee note. My sister is in NZ now, in Auckland and she was a grigor before she was married. I don't know if you are interested in the Grigor side of the family. I know there are about 5 grigors in the phonebook for Auckland. If interested please get in touch.
Regards
Mary
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di
Rowan
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Post by di on Oct 21, 2008 18:35:37 GMT
Hi Mary,
Sorry haven't seen your post before now. I have been out of New Zealand since the end of July & at the moment am in Grand Forks North Dakota USA. Spent some time in Scotland up as far as Stronsay in the Orkney Islands which I found out much more on my Shearers but also stayed in Latheron where I learnt my Christina Sutherland born 1838 Dunbeath, mother wasn't Christina but Christian. Her father was William Sutherland. They married 24 Jan 1820 Kildonan, Sutherland, Scotland & believe when Christina was born lived in Red Rock, Dunbeath, Caithness.
How do the Grigors come into the Sutherland family. Would be interested to find out more.
regards,
Di
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